Forum: Doing philosophy with children RSS
in the forest
mikul tuba 2007-07-21, 18:39 #1
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Subject: in the forest
i do philosophy with children deep in the forest . sitting upon the soft earth , here we are simply rooted . a circle of stones marks our place of meeting . upon each stone is drawn one symbol of a universal language we know and share . at the center of that is a spinner , then by spinning we can make words of the whirling symbolic alphabet . even in a sense of randomness all words have meaning , and this as a philosophy of language is precious . can you see why ?
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Oyvind (Administrator) 2007-07-22, 22:34 #2
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Hi Mikal. Welcome to the forum. Philosophy deep in the forest... wow, sounds great -- although I must admit I do not immediately see how making words out of a spinning wheel make up a philosophical practice. Could you explain in more detail how you go about when do philosophy with these children? I'd really like to know. I am a practitioner myself and curious about new ways to do philosophy. Also, please tell more about the background here. Are you a school/kindergarten teacher? How old are the children?
Retention of strangeness is the only antidote to estrangement. T. W. Adorno
mikul tuba 2007-07-28, 19:42 #3
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later i'll have more time to write , mostly i am in the forest just now  .

making a philosophical language .... i use a set of thirty symbols .
each is an ideo/word , any combination of symbols is also a word
where-in the individual meanings are fused associatively .

choosing a set of ideas (such as Space, Time , Matter... ) is an act
of philosophy . allow them to associate freely , to spin and combine unto
the context of the moment , and you
will discover a wonder of conciousness


and children can play with this .

i sit in the shade of a tree and children come by to play
with this language full of heart and music . this is free .
absolutely all ages , and many artful ways to play .

a sample question to the wheel :

what means 'exist' ?
then , to spin the wheel of language for
a reply....i read this three letter word: L i w~ .
this translates as ' a good , eternal light '

what you see is what you get .
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Oyvind (Administrator) 2007-08-01, 12:57 #4
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Hi Mikul. The combining of symbols, words, meanings and associations is indeed how language works. One could say that creating language is a way of doing philosophy - that language itself is philosophical. Which is true. What seems to be lacking in this approach is the linking of ideas in the community. If one allows the community to associate freely all the way, then it usually becomes difficult to make the children build on each others ideas, to make the children restrict and carefully select their contributions in order to respond to relevant aspects of what has previously been said. How do you address this particular issue in your sessions?
Retention of strangeness is the only antidote to estrangement. T. W. Adorno
mikul tuba 2007-08-03, 20:45 #5
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such a language as i describe is within nature . it already exists as does the community of all life . any awkwardness is in translating it to a learned social language , which is not a necessity for everyone .
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Oyvind (Administrator) 2007-08-05, 13:17 #6
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I disagree with you on this last point. I do think it is necessary to make such a translation - if philosophical practice is what you want to establish, that is. If no common (social) language exists within the community of enquirers, the activity can hardly qualify as philosophical, rather it is a "mystical" or "intuitive" sort of practice. Which may be absolutely great, but I don't think it should be termed "philosophical". If so, any activity rendered meaningful or interesting in one sense or another would be "philosophical". And I don't think that is the case. Philosophy is wonderful, but not everything that is wonderful is necessarily philosophical.
Retention of strangeness is the only antidote to estrangement. T. W. Adorno
mikul tuba 2007-08-23, 19:30 #7
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hello . i'm just now out of the forest and settling in at a farm for the harvest season . i'll be able to write more often , and am happy to .

you may well dispute this as fact  : there exists in nature a human primal Language .

i observe it . i play with it . occasionally a child will correct me in its usage .

if you may be willing to explore the 'exist' of this language , please let me know
how i may help you in this quest . i really can't fiddle until the dance begins ...
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Oyvind (Administrator) 2007-08-23, 23:18 #8
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Quote by mikul tuba:
if you may be willing to explore the 'exist' of this language , please let me know
how i may help you in this quest . i really can't fiddle until the dance begins ...

Hello again Mikul. I might be willing to do a lot of things, given the right reasons for doing them. But I'm afraid that what you have said so far has not convinced me, neither that there exists a philosophical "human primal language" that is in no need whatsoever to be translated into social language, nor that the music is entirely dependent of the dance, i.e. that there is no explanation and understanding apart from the performance of and participation in the activity itself. We are on a social language forum now, so you just have to make your points in letters and words and sentences.
Retention of strangeness is the only antidote to estrangement. T. W. Adorno
mikul tuba 2007-08-24, 18:35 #9
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ok , i give up . ask the sami .
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Oyvind (Administrator) 2007-08-26, 15:10 #10
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Well. If you by this lapidary comment mean to imply that your practice is similar and comparable to the practice of the North-Scandinavian Sami people, why should I expect to get a more elaborate answer from them than from you? Wouldn't they simply retort—like you have done—that there is really no knowledge and understanding of the practice prior to the personal experience of it? The problem with this statement is that you can apply it to just about everything: You don't know anything before you have experienced it. You don't know what it means to drive a car before you have actually experienced it; you don't know what love is before you have experienced being in love; you don't know what it means to rear a child unless you have experienced rearing your own child; you don't know what food is before you have experienced eating etc. In a trivial sort of way all this is, of course, true. Like it is perfectly true that you cannot breathe without lungs, that you cannot experience the world before you are born, that you cannot run without legs, that you cannot think without a brain etc. So what? A teenager who devours car magazines on a daily basis—before being old enough to get a driver's licence—can know pretty much about the driving of cars although he has never driven one himself. And sometimes children in a divorce conflict display almost uncanny insight about adult, affectionate relationships without having any experience with such relationships themselves. In a similar vein it should be possible to explain to me in words what makes your language game with children in the forest philosophical—despite the fact that I have never in my life partaken in such a game. I am not questioning here the existence of a "human primal language" (although this concept is well worth a separate examination); I am only concerned with the apparent assumption that such a game is eo ipso philosophical. I don't buy that—unless criteria are given that in a strong and convincing way connect the concept of 'philosophical' with the idea of this game.
Retention of strangeness is the only antidote to estrangement. T. W. Adorno
mikul tuba 2007-08-27, 18:23 #11
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really , i do give up .
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Oyvind (Administrator) 2007-08-28, 01:00 #12
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No problem.
Retention of strangeness is the only antidote to estrangement. T. W. Adorno
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